We are very keen on integrating ICTs, says Indian Minister for Panchayati Raj

The training and capacity building of grassroots functionaries should be interwoven into a system of scientifically organised activity mapping where there is devolution of function, functionaries and finances. The best form of training is hands on training. In an interview with Manish Kumar of OneWorld South Asia, the Minister for Panchayati Raj, Mani Shankar Aiyar shared his thoughts on how Panchayati Raj Institutions are contributing to better governance processes and integrating ICTs in their work. Within last two decades after the 73rd amendment, to the Indian constitution we can now see the proactive approach on the part of the government to bring about greater awareness among the people regarding roles and responsibilities of Panchayats. What role do you see for Panchayats in national development? The roles and responsibilities of the Panchayat in the national developmental process are given in Article 243 G of the constitution. Article 243 G specially provides that Panchayati Raj Institutions (PRIs) should be institutions of Local Self Governance especially with regard to planning, economic development and social justice and implementing such programmes of economic development and social justice as shall be “entrusted” to them. Once we are clear about what these two provisions entail, it means that almost all the work that the line departments, particularly of state government and to much more restricted extent central government have been doing in the district and sub-district areas of India, should now be done by PRIs to the extent to which the state government encourages devolution. The indicative parameters of devolution are given in the 11th schedule which lists 29 subjects in respect to which devolution should take place. This is an indicative list and the state governments are free to add to this list. At the same time they are not obliged to devolve with respect to all the 29 subjects. However, you cannot devolve subjects or departments, rather what you can devolve are the activities relating to subjects, which have hitherto been administered by the departments. These activities have to be devolved at three levels without duplication, and this exercise is technically called “activity mapping”. Activity mapping is essential to avoid confusion and to check corruption. This should preferably be done on the principle of subsidiarity which holds that anything that can be done at a lower level should be done at that level and not at any higher level. We have put our focus on the activity mapping. We have met with a large level of success and there has been an even higher level of sensitisation. But translating sensitisation to activity mapping to actual activity map involves literally stepping on the toes of every department that is called up to shed what it has been doing hitherto. Though the progress is very slow, we are hopeful that by the end of this calendar year at least half of the states of India would have completed activity mapping. Once the functions are devolved, then devolution of finances would/should follow. If we get the function devolution done correctly, then the devolving of budget through Panchayat sector of state budget becomes feasible. And once this happens there would be no difficulty in getting the bureaucracy to go and work at the Panchayat levels. What level of political commitment and preparation of grassroots functionaries is needed so that the entire process and its implementation can be brought to a reality? Preparation of political will is a continuous process. Its not just a process of persuasion, there is also certain amount of restructuring of institutions of government which obliges them to have this political will. The training and capacity building of grassroots functionaries should be interwoven into a system of scientifically organised activity mapping where there is devolution of function, functionaries and finances. The best form of training is hands on training. Training module has to be integrated into actual work that they are doing. I’m now trying to persuade the state governments that the District Magistrates, Deputy Commissioners and Collectors are the ones who should be organising training courses on the spot, for who knows better about the problems of a district than the district officer. And who can understand these problems better than the victims of the problems that are the Panchayat representatives. I don’t think that the training modules prepared by Indira Gandhi National Open University (IGNOU) or NGOs are the right means of communicating with people there. They learn by experience and they have to be given the opportunity to do things. Otherwise it becomes very superficial. The only effective training that I find is what is done from Mysore through satellite and interactive computers. Do you think that Panchayats can use ICTs like satellites for livelihoods creation? As far as mechanical training like how to handle a computer etc. are concerned, its effective as it would be used on a daily basis, the training remains with them. But what all can be done using computers depends upon the functions devolved. So having a panchayat ghar with a computer room is the beginning of an answer but certainly not the totality of the answer. The computer should be used for actual administration of Panchayats and to develop social projects that meaningfully impact on the lives of the people. Otherwise it becomes decorative. Village Knowledge Centres (VKCs) are a useful beginning but much of its success would depend largely upon the knowledge imparted through them. The relationship between the VKCs and the evolution of PRIs is symbiotic. VKCs would become more important to the extent that PRIs become important and vis-e-versa. Do you have any strategy in place to demonstrate the value of technology as a means of creating livelihood? The Seventh of the Seven Round Tables so far of the Ministry of Panchayati Raj (PR) addressed itself specifically and explicitly to this issue and came up with a series of 20 recommendations. These recommend that the focus should not only be on providing ICT connectivity to the Panchayat but also on how the Panchayats could use it. For example, the skeptics of the PR system can by the press of a button get information about how the funds are being used by the Gram Panchayats. It’s a useful and indispensable tool. Is there any other way by which you can keep track of the movement of funds from Delhi to the 2,38,000 Gram Panchayats? There is a working group report on how electronic tagging and tracking can aid in this. Whether the tracking and tagging system used by the banks can be used by the treasuries and sub-treasuries? Can the Panchayats also play a proactive role in disaster management especially in the context of Geographic Information System (GIS)? I’m deeply convinced that no national disaster management programme can ever begin to work without the Panchayat. There is a concern in the fact that though the legislation allows the state government to decide the role of the Panchayats, it is not mandatory. We hope that we are able to sensitise the state governments to the benefits of using the PRIs in this context. The control on spatial information systems is a major handicap to the access to information by the Panchayats. How can it be overcome? My concern is not just with the Sarpanch (head) accesing the information, rather the general public should have access to these information systems. ICT is an enabling tool to make Right to Information (RTI) a meaningful reality in the lives of our people. Without both of these a gram sabha cannot become a gram sansad (local governing body). Your ministry is using ICT tools like ruralsoft and PRIAsoft. Can you throw some light on them? Our ministry is very keen on VKCs and integrating ICT tools into governance. But we are not limiting ourselves to creating of a centre and providing infrastructure. Our concerns extend to what has to be done with these VKCs. We forsee the benefits of VKCs and that is why we are hoping that they will by and large be in Panchayat ghars. What difference can RTI make in terms of pro-poor governance? RTI is one of our great achievements. All this is necessary for pro-poor governance. Participation of people in their governance is the very essence of the Panchayati Raj system. About Mani Shankar Aiyar He is the Union Minister for Panchayati Raj, Government of India.